Why Unions are a Bad Idea
There is a fundamental problem with labor unions that cannot be ignored: a person can't answer to two masters; somebody has to be in charge.
Just think of all the inane junk that happens because of labor unions. Consider that people are paid outrageous amounts of money to perform non-skilled tasks--often just grunt work--and the resultant price increase is borne by all. You can't tell me that it makes sense for a company to pay somebody 14 bucks an hour in 1984 to put cans on a grocery shelf. That's what I was paid back then.
Or how about the way labor is divided? I know a friend who wasn't allowed to pick something up and carry it from one part of the warehouse to another because it was the job of a union employee. Never mind what works best for the company who pays the bills; "protecting jobs" for the unions is the only thing that matters.
And the situation in our schools is a joke too. Administrators who are paid to make sure students achieve have little power to do anything to make sure that happens. I can give you many examples of the whining, silly demands that teachers have that run counterproductive to helping students.
The rebellion of the people against the owners of a company or against authority is as old as Adam and Eve--it was wrong then and it is wrong now.
Oh, and spare me the balony about unions being needed to ensure workers are not taken advantage of.
Somebody is taken advantage of if management is in charge and somebody else is taken advantage of if the union is in charge. The person who has right of ownership and who is held accountable should be the one with the right to take advantage of the other party.
Now of course we have laws in this country that won't allow the owners to take advantage of the workers, but none that keep the workers from taking advantage of the owners. Isn't that kind of backwards?
45 comments:
Great post. The unions have a strangle-hold on the legislature in Jefferson City, preventing Missouri from participating in the economic expansion that has taken place throughout the South. Why locate your business here, when you can find much more favorable conditions in Arkansas or Tennessee? But we'll all sleep better paying higher prices for goods and knowing that the union members aren't being taken advantage of!
I am sure glad that you like to whine and moan about how the worker is taking advantage of the owner. If you enjoy your weekends off, thank the unions. If you are glad that you got to go to highschool instead of being put to work in a sweatshop, thank the unions. I am not saying that unions are perfect, far from it, I am saying that without unions big corporations would run rampant and destroy what you would call a decent living. If you need an example of corporate corruption just take a look at Enron, worldcom, and the likes. And I am not even going to begin on the oil companies ... Need I say more.
Hey, BUI:
Thanks for dropping by. I love to talk about these things and I am glad you could contribute to the discussion.
I work for a union, so I am aware of their contributions, which, I imagine were probably necessary at one point in our history.
The funny thing about my post and your response is that I thought. I had an unassailable point: someone has to be in charge and obviously that someone should be the owner of the company, not the people he hires.
I especially thought I hit a home run with the last line where I basically said that current laws protect the worker, but don't protect the owner. If you eliminate unions, those laws would still exist.
Well, I have found there are certain arguements that you can not win, and this is one of them.
the union is why america is the way it is. you couldnt get no one else to do what we do. like the iron workers are on crazy sob. i am a operator we have the lifes of many people in our hands i dont want to here that stuff about unskilled labor. not just anyone can get in a crane, back hoe, or dozer and run it good. we are highly trained thats why were highly paid!
Great post! There are other reasons unions are a bad idea, too. Like the fact that by artificially raising wages beyond the value of the work done, you create/support a black market of cheap labor, which is currently being exploited by illegal immigrants and other "under the table" employment. Also, unions take away a person's ability to make his or her own employment decisions. If the union wants to strike, but the individual is happy with the current situation, s/he has to, as a union member, strike anyway. Likewise, if the individual is disgruntled, but the union is happy, the union will not support the individual in seeking individual gains.
Bottom line: if you don't like your job, talk to your boss. If a compromise cannot be reached, quit and find another job. You as an individual are more disposable to a union than you are to a business who relies on your skill to produce its product.
so your going to tell me your going to let all the corporations run america and tell you what your wages, benifits, and retirement are going to be thats a bunch of bull. we the union people elect reps. to run the unions so we can get great pay and bennys. why would you trust anyone else with that. we all stick together if one union isnt getting proper treatment of wages or they bring in rats we strike! that is the only way to get our agreed wages and bennys so if we strike the whole job site shuts down. If you dont want to be in the union be a rat but we will see how far that gets you and how well you can support your family then. UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Dear Mr. Badass:
I understand completely that you think the union works best for you. I am not saying that it doesn't.
My point, however, is that unions have no right to tell a business how it is to be run because THEY DON'T OWN IT.
I am very clear on the fact that unions want this power that doesn't belong to them--the U.S. has wrongly given it to them--but I am arguing the fact that unions are flat out MORALLY WRONG.
Now, if you are the type who doesn't really care about right and wrong, then good for you--I just hope you are not my neighbor.
what i was trying to explain is that it is the companys business but we need rights without them the company can pay you minimum wage and no health insurance. the union push for those issues. they dont tell the business how to do you job the just want the common blue collar joe to have a fair shake. there are alot of states that are non union, but their wages and benifits suffer. that was the point i was trying to get across. and i saw dennis saying that the all the prices go up that is inflation we do make a good buck but everything goes up. i dont know about other unions but i am a heavy equiptment operator we have alot of trainging and are very skilled there are some unions that do take advatage of that though so i can see both sides a little but i am union so i will have to go with the union side
Dear Mr. Ugly Naked Guy:
I first want to state that you make some very valid points!
My father has been in the Carpenters Union almost my whole life. Shopping at Walmart is a sin in our house. Needless to say I was raised on Union wages so that is what I support.
I want to let you know if a company doenst want to join a Union they dont have to. It's a choice they make. It's a freedom we have living in America. If you dont like the Union dont join!
Simple as that! No one holds a gun to the big wiggs at Kroger and tells them they have to be Union. They choose to do so.
Anonymous:
I sure that being a union company or not is not the choice of the company. I am sure that Kroger would rather NOT be a union company. My understanding is that the laws are such that if a certain percentage of employees vote to go union, the company has no choice. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly certain that most companies go kicking and screaming in unionhood.
you are right on that if the employees want it they will get the union brand but its for the better though now those employees will get a voice of many instead of kiss ass supervisor speaking for them they have everyone
My mom is part of the teachers' union where she lives, and guess what: She's not even a teacher! She's an administrative secretary, and she is paid hourly, not on salary. When the teachers' union strikes, she has to -- HAS TO -- strike too. She has a few days of paid strike in her budget, but oftentimes, she simply doesn't get paid for the days she has to miss because of someone else's work objections. This is not fair.
Additionally, badassiuoe said, with regards to unions telling coroporations what to pay workers, "who else would you trust with this?" How about myself! If I am capable enough of getting a job, I am capable enough of negotiating proper compensation with my employer. If my employer doesn't want to cooperate, I can quit and get a new job. More than likely, though, my employer would try to reach an agreement with me. ME, the employee. Not a huge union with bulldog attorneys that tell the company what I'm worth, what I should be paid, what conditions to provide me. It's not fair to the company, and it isn't fair to me. I'm not a helpless stooge -- I can obtain and retain my own employment.
Yes, how, pardon the expression, assbackwards can we be? Of course you let the company decide how much they pay and what the benefits are. That's why they are the company; that's what company's do. If the employee doesn't want to work for the company, no one is holding a gun to his head.
Union People: We get that the union makes sure that you get good pay and benefits--that is not my point. My point is that there is no moral right for a group of non-owners to tell the owners what to do. In this country they have the legal right, but that doesn't mean it is moral.
Dear Calico Whitney:
If your mom doesnt like being part of the Union and making the hourly wage that she does then maybe she should quit!
Im not saying everything about the every Union is perfect but this is a democracy and everyones vote counts. The majority rules. If you dont like it get a different job!
CLB
A union wage provides me with a small home, food and clothes for my family, a vehicle to shop and travel to work with, and the securety of knowing that I have some legal entity to make sure that I am treated fairly. I definately don't think that I am over paid or under paid. I do, on the other hand feel that unions are corupted with dishonest non brotherly type fat cats, who take huge wages from my union dues. It takes a lot of convincing for any of our industry just to get these guys to come out and look at issues that crop up between management and members.
We are now looking at decertifying for lack of servicing by our union.
the right to organize is about the only freedom we have left.The corporations own the media so there goes our right to free speech(fox news).Calico whitney needs to read a book about how miners were shot in the face trying to organize by the same employers she said would be happy to help the employee.Or they could quit and let an immigrant get worked to death for very little.Those union people have more heart than "calico whitney" could ever dream of.Do they call you calico cause your a pussy?
Hey BUI, what kind of comment is "prices go up that is inflation we do make a good buck but everything goes up." Prices going up are caused by expenses. If wages go up that means expenses have gone up which will cause prices to go up. Inflation is the rise in prices so when you get those "good bucks" raises you are causing prices to go up. Unions were needed at one time, but in most cases not needed. I am tired of hearing people say that you have the unions to thank for your weekends and for this and that. The only people I have to thank for any thing is the men and women who fought in WWI & WWII and keep fighting to keep this country free to have the choices we have to make. Laws have changed to protect the workers now. Unions have become so corrupt and have companies to go out of business. Look at the Car Industry in this country. The unions drove the wages up so high that the US Auto has become so high priced it could not compete. People have lost their jobs because the union wanted the high wages not caring that it would force companies to cut jobs to stay a float. Stop talking about how unions did this and that back when most of you people saying this weren't even born. Get your heads out of your asses and look how far our country has fallen in regards to jobs being lost because of unions demanding higher and higher wages for jobs that require little work to do.
If it was left up to Corporate America, they would have the backbone (blue collar) of America get paid minimum wage. There is no conscience on their part. Its easy to say "if you dont like it, leave", but what about the people who cant leave, the ones without a higher education, without social/political connections? Dont they deserve a wage that they can live on? Have a house with a white picket fence, 2 kids and a dog? Have a right to health benefits for him/herself and their children? And where is the thanks for the weekend, or the 8 hour day, or overtime, or sick leave, or vacation pay, or holidays, or a pension? We must organize so we dont get fu**ed by corporate america. The less fortunate need some help in getting what every person deserves, a decent way of life.
As a retort to "anonymous"
The car industry cant compete because of cars manufactured in other countries where they get paid in garbage. the jobs are leaving the us because car companies say hey "we can pay alot less if we move to mexico" how do you think the auto worker in mexico lives? then lets go back to first base, "if you dont like it, leave" somebody has to do it!!! You have to acknowledge without representation these people wont get anything.
And its nice that you thank the troops, so do i, but when did they have anything to do with getting an 8 hour workday?
on another note, what union jobs require little work to do? less work than sitting at a desk all day? Face it, most union laborers do more back breaking work in a month than you probably have done all of your life.
to quote bb:
"but what about the people who cant leave, the ones without a higher education, without social/political connections? Dont they deserve a wage that they can live on? Have a house with a white picket fence, 2 kids and a dog? Have a right to health benefits for him/herself and their children? And where is the thanks for the weekend, or the 8 hour day, or overtime, or sick leave, or vacation pay, or holidays, or a pension?"
This my friend, is what we call communism. Not everyone is created equally, therefore, why should everyone be given equal treatment.
I know it sounds bad, and I hate to break it to you, but maybe you made a big mistake back when you decided not to get a higher education.
Everyone voting against a union has made a valid point, so I won;t restate that. The real deal is that the "little guy" or the "uneducated, proletariat, working class" want to be equal to the higher ups, and honestly, it just doesn't work like that. It's nice that you want to be communists, maybe you should move to China, then you could learn what real suffering is. Instead of crying over health care, consider your government crushing you with tanks when you protest.
What came first in the auto industry -- higher union wages forced by unions or out sourcing jobs to other countries?
As for office work being less demanding that of nonoffice work. BS. I work for a garbage company and I agree that there are a lot of drivers that deserve high pay. There are also a few drivers who don't pull their weight, but whose jobs are being protected by the union. In fact, there was one driver who was doing such a poor job they promoted him to come work for the union.
As for my wife, she's a school teacher. Her wages are fair, but a little low. The union does an aweful job negotiating health benefits that my lame non-union customer service job has better health benefits.
Unions were a necessary evil once upon a time, but it is time for them to go.
the working class doesnt want to be equal to their bosses, (mansions, summer homes, boats, mercedes benz) they just want to be able to have a place to live and raise a family on a decent wage.
I stopped writing this blog a while ago, but still love seeing all the responses to this post.
I still have the same question for all the union supporters out there (BTW, I am in a union, but not by choice): Who is the boss? The union or the owners of the company? NO ONE can serve two masters. Who is really the boss and who has the right to be the boss?
Union workers dont have 2 masters or 2 bosses. A union member works for the union. The employer hires the services of the union. Union labor is a sub contractor to the general contractor (the company). Nobody has to hire union labor. I know, generally in the construction industry, employers hire union labor because they are highly skilled, every construction union has an apprentice/training school, safety programs and such. Union laborers are constantly training. I know because I am one (if you havent guessed by now). Construction is becoming very safety and training oriented, and that is why union labor has a leg up on non-union labor.
Re: the last anonymous...
Thank you so much for explainig that! I have waited for someting like that in countless debate such as this and no one ever says that.
I did not really ever look at it that way before. I especially like how you out and out admitted that the union is the boss. Personally, I have a problem with that, but at least that solves the problem of it being impossible to have two bosses.
However, I disagree that if a company does not want to hire a union it doesn't have to. I am sure you know better than i (and perhaps can explain) that there are laws that give workers the rights to unionize. Many times those laws make it impossible for the company not to have a union. If a certain percentage of people want the union, that's it. Am I wrong?
Your right, workers can vote to have a union. But in most states, they have right to work (for less) laws. So somebody can work at a normally union job and not have to join the union. My point is, nobody is forcing unions on anybody. And personally, why is it wrong for a union worker to work for the union? If your a general contractor and you hire a subcontractor, your not the boss of the subcontractors employees, you simply hired the subcontractor to do a job, regardless of who he uses or what methods he uses to get it done in most cases.
dd, Were you part of the group to get weekends off, 8 hour days? I doubt it so enough with the "And where is the thanks for the weekend, or the 8 hour day, or overtime, or sick leave, or vacation pay, or holidays, or a pension?" crap. I am tired of union members saying that like they were around or were part of those things being instituted. I am also tired of the "Back breaking work union members perform". Last time I checked not all unions were in "Back breaking" industries. Come up with some better arguments as to why you think unions are so great.
Not back breaking? Try riding a rumbling bulldozer for 30 years, see how your hearing and kidneys feel after that. Try digging with a shovel or using a jackhammer so much that when you come home your hands are twice the size they were when you left the house. Try laying bricks on your knees for 20 years. Most brickies have at least one knee replacement in their lifetime. In essence, any union argument is really an argument about socialism vs. unrestricted capitalism. I just dont think that there is anything wrong with a bluecollar worker having a slice of the American dream along with any manager or business owner. I pick socialism.
"I pick socialism." Well, there you have it! Unfortunately, it appears much of America picks socialism too; they just aren't as honest about it as you are. We are being coming more socialistic every year.
Im glad we have an agreement!
I'm so glad someone else has noticed this hold that an archaic institution has on our country. To those who posted comments to the contrary, it shows how easy it is for an individual to be generally short-sighted, especially in matters of industry and economics. Costs *are* driven up by unions, which, through their dues, demand higher and higher wages. (In fact even such "necessary" regulations we take for granted (like ever-increasing minimum wage laws) serve only to exacerbate inflation as well.) And, anyone who has EVER worked with unions in Chicago-land, will understand all too clearly the personal risk to their health and family if they choose to be non-union. At least out here, the unions are unabashedly violent, threatening, and generally in poor taste.
To those "raised on union wages" (I am one of them), it may be beneficial to do some actual independent research on the topic instead of using your personal nostalgias to formulate an intelligent opinion. To simply acquiesce to the labor-gang mentality of a brutal and antiquated past, in lieu of measured re-evaluations, is a lazy and dangerous choice.
There are a lot of valid points above, but the bottom line is unions only benefit the people who are in them (slightly) and are very dangerous to the rest of the country. As for who is the boss... the unions are, which can be VERY costly to the business owner. One example: I am the "boss" (no, i don't live in a mansion but I do drive a 20 year old mercedes)at a facility that utilizes union labor for overwater bulkliquid transfers. All the union has to do is hook up a hose that should take two people 20 minutes (non-skilled). Instead, they have 11 people on-sight during the entire transfer (normally over 30 hours) with seperate crews for hose set up and break down. 100% insane!!! On top of that, I cannot tell them how to do their jobs... even when they are doing them wrong! I have to call the Port, who then contacts the foremen, who then directs the labor... all the while I am paying over $20K an hour for the ship to sit idle. What a joke! This is the biggest sham I have ever witnessed. (I have some great stories of what these guys do while "on the clock" - including drinking, doing drugs, sleeping and playing cards.) The average salary for these guys is equal to or more than mine...
To address some of the comments earlier.
1) Unions were very necessary many years ago... In my opinion the only jobs where unions provide benefits are highly skilled jobs in large industries where quality is #1, such as pipefitting. They provide training, which is very valuable for the employers. But you have to take the good with the bad... for as many good trained employees you get from the union, you also get the slackers that are there just to get a paycheck and could care less about how effecient he/she is.
2) The American Dream is just that... A DREAM! Not everyone can afford these things and that is life. You have play the hand your dealt as well as you can... People's decisions in life determines their outcomes. If you want socialism, either move to Europe or elect Obama. Artificially raising the wages of blue collar workers stiffles the economy in several ways. The marketplace should determine the wages not unions.
I am done writing for now... I will check back for comments because I like to hear others opinions.
Thanks for that very interesting example. I love hearing about the stupid things that get forced upon companies because of unions. I would love to write a book filled with examples like you just ga ve.
Let's leave the fate of the workers up to someone whose number 1 priority is to bring in as much money as possible while giving out as little as possible.
What could possibly go wrong?
I don't understand unions at all. If you don't like the way your employer treats you, move on. It is the way a free society works.
If an employer doesn't treat employees well, he will get an unmotivated always changing workforce. His business as a whole will suffer and he will have to change to be successful.
The employer that takes care of their people gets better quality employees because people will compete for the prized jobs. Isn't that the way capitalism works?
Obviously, I'm not a union member and I refuse to be bullied into being one. There are already laws that protect workers and these laws are not enforced by these bloodsucking unions.
I consider unions and lawyers the biggest parasites to our society. Funny how the two are always together.
Take care,
Jon
Fortunately, the exterminator of common sense is eradicating more and more union parasites!
Now, if we could just make some headway with those lawyers!
The bottom line is this.
You deserve what you work for... but nothing more.
Creating jobs for the sake of creating jobs doesn't make sense. Unions might have been helpful 80 to 100 years ago, but right now, they are one of the main reasons America cannot produce a decent automobile at a decent price.
Unions are partly to blame for the financial ruin our country is in.
You want to make a decent living? Get a damn college degree! You simply do not deserve to make as much or more money than someone who has more education than you.... and it was your choice to have a family.... that's your problem.
I worked at Dow Checmical in Freeport, TX, in 2003 when the International Union of Operating Engineers refused Dow's best, last and final offer. They went on strike which lasted about 3 weeks until they accepted the same best, last and final offer. Dow never budged because they had taken six months to train all of their non-union employees how to operate their chemical plants, repair their equipment, operate trucks, operate fork lifts, etc.
I agree with UNG that at one point in America's history, unions made sense. Many companies were out of control. Mining companies forced people to live in the company owned housing if they wanted a job. These same companies would only pay employees in company script that could only be used at the company store to buy goods. The people who lived in those remote locations were taken advantage of and the unions did help them. These types of crimes would not be possible today because the Americans has become so litigious. CLearly, all one has to do is look at the UAW as an example of what happens when a union is left unchecked. The UAW also started out with good intentions and did stops the abuses at companies like Ford. However, the greed of these same unions along with the weak leadership at the big 3 have left the all parties involved fragile, vulnerable and hollow, instead of being a in the strong position where they should be.
Nice comments from all. You all seem very passionate towards this issue that is why I would like to get your input on the following. In the near future, I will be participating in a debate with the topic being "should unions be abolished"? I will be for it and was wondering how I could rebut certain arguments.
Unions:
1. Protect workers
2. Promote better working conditions
3. Bring forth collective democratic involvement in workplace
4. Promote higher pay
I would greatly appreciate your comments!!
adawgalvi, here are your four topics you wish to rebut:
Unions:
1. Protect workers
2. Promote better working conditions
3. Bring forth collective democratic involvement in workplace
4. Promote higher pay
Here's how a person could rebut those points:
1. YOU'RE A BIG FAT BABBY PROTECT URSELF, UNIONS ARE LIKE UR MOMMY AND U JUST WANNA KEEP SUCKLIN ON HER TITTY HUH? WELL NO CAN DO WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD BUDDY IF YOU CANT TAKE THE HEAT GET OUTTA MY POPCORN MACHINE!!!!
2. OH JEEZ BABBY WANTS TO WORK WITH HIS BLANKY ON LAYING DOWN ON THE COUCH. NO SHIT GETS DONE IF OUR WORKERS ARENT LETTIN MOLTEN STEEL DRIP ALL OVER THEIR ARMS AND CLIMBING 100 FEET UP FLIMSY WOODEN LADDERS. THATS WHAT REALLY BUILT THIS COUNTRY AND IF YOU DONT LOVE IT YOU CAN LEAVE IT OK!?!?!?!
3. WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN YOU FILTHY PINKO COMMIE FUCK!!?!?!?! A WORKPLACE ISNT A GODDAMN COUNTRY ITS A PLACE WHERE I TELL YOU WHAT TO DO AND THEN YOU CAN TAKE A LITTLE SCRAP OF MY HARD EARNED MONEY AND TRY TO MAKE A LIVING OUT OF IT! NO MORE NO LESS IF YOU WANNA MAKE AN OMELET U GOTTA BREAK A FEW EGGS BABBY
4. IF BABBY WANTS A RAISE BABBY CAN GROVEL FOR IT LIKE THE LITTLE BITCH HE IS!!!! MAYBE IF HE WANTED A RAISE SO BAD HED FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHOD PAY HIM MORE AND THEN ID THINK ABOUT IT, BABBY CANT JUST DECIDE THAT HE DOESNT LIKE WHAT I GIVE HIM AND TRY AND SHUT DOWN MY GODDAMNED SWEATSHOP BECAUSE OF IT. NO SIR THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS IF YOU CANT RIDE TWO HORSES AT ONCE THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF MY CIRCUS!!!!
Unions are a thing of the past. Here in Tucson, we're doing something about it. Check out http://dump933.blogspot.com/ and read what is said about the IAM933.
This lame union is under the gun because of poor leadership. They don't represent and have lost the hearts and minds of their workers. www.iam933.net has a comprehensive list of reasons why IAMAW Local Lodge 933 is a relic of the 20th century.
And http://iamnot933.blogspot.com/ keeps the truth pouring from the keg of honesty.
There is a decertification effort going on right now at Raytheon Missile Systems, where the union is made up of a bunch of crybabies, and misled loyalists. The decert effort began on http://oust933.googlepages.com/home and has grown over the years. This fall will be the showdown in the desert. The union won't walk out of the OK Corral. But they will be leaving Raytheon!
Oust 933
i am in full support of my union , the international brotherhood of electrical workers.
At his point in history large corporations dominate the majority of all employment opportunities
in our country , and the average worker has little leverage to secure a living wage and favorable working conditions. When workers unite , we can use our collective pool of available labor as a bargaining chip i.e. , if you give us a 1% annual wage increase we will supply skilled manpower to your job / give us a raise next year and we'll work @ 2005 wage rates for you this summer etc.
then we all vote on those types of things and we have our new agreement. corporate america cannot stand unions , do you think they want to pay their employees a decent wage? no , they will get what they can on the bare minimum ; thats part of the problem in our country right now , most of the wealth is concentrated at the top,
the middle class has been living off credit and the general public has been duped into regarding unions as crime syndicates.
I am proud to be a Union member , i was never bullied or pressured ,
nor do our representatives employ those tactics. It is important to recognize that the corporate sponsored anti union lobby in this country is extremely well funded , and has an effective PR apparatus. Sorry that you got into a crummy union UglyNakedGuy ; perhaps you should not base your judgement of all unions on your experience as a grocery store clerk.
yes unions have faults! without unoins and there political spending what will counter the big business dollars? say good buy to minim wage. starting in the 70's instead of more money they asked for better benifits. wrkr to ceo 40x. now 300-400 times the wrkr. job security, retirement, overtime vacation, ect. these things are what we need unions for. most companies are only out for the bottom line and market share. if the product suckes spend money on adds then send production over seas to cut cost ect. the ceo's only care about the stock price today so the get there bonus if the company fails they are set for life and can walk away. workers sadly need a voice so as to not be exploted! if you have a better solution than unoins lets hear it but if not unoins still are a nessacy evil. that or all the wealth will stay at the top and the bottom will just get lower.
yes the bad should get fired! but fired on the spot for somthing thats not their fualt by the new manager that does not like them? their needs to be balance good unions to protech good workers from bad employers! and to work with good employers to make a stonger company with fair compensation for all.
To DD,
"Dont they deserve a wage that they can live on? Have a house with a white picket fence, 2 kids and a dog? Have a right to health benefits for him/herself and their children?"
Short answer. No. If a person isn't willing to work hard they should have nothing. Why should an uneducated person be granted a chance to earn more than a person with a higher education? Why should the rest of the world have to pay huge amounts for merchandise because union joe is making $40 an hour to put on lug nuts? Fuck that. Buy foreign. Kill American sales and service. That is what the unions are going to end up doing. You can't leverage a huge price without quality. A Suburban is not worth $45-$50K when I can buy a Toyota for half.
Get fucked, union pussies.
I see you union types talking about insurance and other benefits ("bennys" I believe is the term you use) as if your employer owes them to you. Please tell me where it is written that an employer is responsible for providing you with health care. That's the problem most people have with union workers, you're all like spoiled children that think something is "owed" to you.
I have been a non-union ironworker most of my life, I have stood on my own two feet and worked my way from a bolt punk up to a job foreman, I currently own my own company, and I have never asked for anything more than a decent wage equal to my responsibilities. I sleep well every night, and I take great pride in what I have accomplished in my life, because I know I have done it all by MYSELF, not depended on a professional extortionist to "negotiate" it for me. In short, I am a capitalist, you are a socialist.
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