Friday, November 05, 2004

The Saddest Thing About this Election

By far the most amazing thing about the recently completed Battle Royal that we call a national election is that seemingly scads of people based their ultimate pick on a very dubious source--"Fahrenheit 9/11."

That I personally spoke with many people who punched a ballot based on Michael Moore's "monsterpiece" is just mind boggling to me. People can (and will) argue until the next election about the film, but reasonable people have got to admit (but won't) that this mass-marketed celluloid rumor had little basis in truth. Heck, one would do just as well to consult "The Weekly World News" for reliable information!

But wait. People do actually believe the libelous tabloids for their facts and that is what Michael Moore and the democrats who pretend to believe the film were counting on. People who were voting for Kerry because they believe in the policies of the Democratic Party didn't need a faux documentary to make their decision. People who have no clue about what goes on in this world will believe anything, especially if it is released on a limited edition DVD.

What might Tuesday's result have been had this film not been available for free on the internet the day before the election and shown on various cable networks to get one last good mass brain-washing before the big date?

There is no shame in voting for your party and its principles; shame abounds if you have no idea what either party stands for, but vote anyway based on a clever marketing campaign masked as a documentary. Extra shame for you if you know deep down that the source is dubious, but choose to cite it anyway hoping to fool the foolish.

24 comments:

Mr. Grim said...

I may very well make this my last comment here, not because I think I am not welcome, in fact that usually encourages me. . .but I wish to remind you first that I also do not believe everything that Moore says and that as a filmmaker, he is stretching the line by leading his interviewees and jumping to conclusions, HOWEVER, having seen his film twice and a ton of other sources of info, the damn thing isn't nearly as filled with lies as you make it sound.
Was Bush NOT a failed businessman with ties to HUGE corporate money, including the Saudi Royals? Was Bush NOT a drunken cheerleader with nothing going for him but his name? Is his administration NOT filled with christians extremists that are as much afraid of homos as certain breeds of cats (look it up if you never heard of that one). And finally, did they NOT have a plan to re-invade Iraq, even if it meant blaming them for 9/11?
But I give up for now. You won.
Just stop with the autopilot loyalty. It is AMERICAN to question authority, espectially when there are so many unanswered questions. . .

Ugly Naked Guy said...

Grim:

Perhaps I crossed a line that I had not intended to cross when I started this blog. I wanted to avoid arguements that no one can win because I am really getting disgusted with the us vs. them attitude of politics. I am not saying that I am somehow above this fray because I am as strident as anyone, but I still want to approach ideas from a spot where people can agree and see what happens from there. I think we all have a better chance of learning something if the conversation starts out with something other than "you suck and here's why."

So as you see, a point-by-point refutation Moore's movie would not be something I'm interested in. I could no better convince you that the Bush Administration is not terrified of homosexuals than I can make you believe the earth is flat--that's an arguement that nobody will give any ground up over.

I did, however, think that I could find agreement between thinking people with the point of my post: 1. Reasonable people don't choose a president based on a movie, and 2. Those who use a movie to defend their choice would have made the same choice without said movie, so why mention it unless you were hoping to fool those who have no other basis for their decision?

Call me dense, but I thought that even hard-core Kerry supporters would admit that, after all, it really is a bit silly to hang so much of your opinion on a movie. I certainly put you, Mr. Grim, in that category. I have no doubt that you didn't base your choice on Michael Moore's opinion or anybody else's because you are obviously a thinker and you decided using your own brain. There are, however, way way too many people in this country who don't think for themselves and did not scrutinize the candidates and the policies of their party before making a decision. Some of those people voted republican and some democrat. I chose to mention Moore's movie as the most spurious of reasons for forming an opinion because it has so dominated the popular media. I am equally disgusted with anyone who would use any of those anti-Fahrenheit 9/11 movies to make up their mind.

As for me questioning authority, I do it all the time(ask my wife, she thinks I am way too untrusting). I just think that maybe you and I are questioning a different authority sometimes.

Anonymous said...

I BET THAT AN EQUAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE VOTED FOR BUSH BASED ON THE FACT THAT ARNOLD CALLED THEM AND ASKED THEM TOO. I ALSO BET MANY REPUBLICAN VOTES CAME FROM CLEAR CHANNEL RADIO TALK SHOW LISTENERS OR FOX NEWS. YOU SAY YOU WANT AN OPEN DISCUSSION OF THE FACTS BUT YOUR POINTS ARE ALWAYS DIRECTED AT THE STUPIDITY OF THE DEMOCRATS, WHEN THERE ARE JUST AS MANY PEOPLE WHO VOTE REPUBLICAN WITH NOTHING TO BASE THEIR OPINIONS ON BUT IRRESPONSIBLE MEDIA OUTLETS.

Ian B. said...

Fahrenheit 9/11 accomplished what is set out to do which was to make people think and question. If scards of people based their ultimate pick on this movie then it a good thing because it means they did not simply accept what they were being told by Bush or Kerry, they began to think and question. The scary part was people who said they agree with Kerry on Iraq and the economy but voted for W because of his belief in God or that morality was their main concern. Now that is scary.

Ugly Naked Guy said...

Certainly anyone who voted based on what Arnold told them to is just as lost as anybody. Personally, I have not met anyone who voted because of Arnold, but I have met people who voted because of Michael Moore and he's not even an action hero.

You are correct that people who listen to certain media outlets are voting based on one-sided information, but I am not talking about those people. I am talking about people who listen to no talk radio from either side and never watch the news or any serious new program. Don't you think it a shame that people who have no exposure to even one-sided critical thinking would vote based on what their favorite rock star (or country music star)shouts out between songs?

I am sad for someone of any political persuasion to be so shallow that they vote based on stuff they have heard out in the street but haven't investigated themselves. Anyone who voted based on "FahrenHYPE 9/11" is a bozo too, I just didn't mention this because nobody saw this movie so it didn't matter.

Anonymous said...

YOU STATE THAT YOU WANTED TO "AVOID ARGUMENTS THAT NO ONE CAN WIN". IF THAT IS INDEED YOUR PURPOSE THEN WHY DONT YOU PRESENT YOUR FACTS IN AN UNBIASED WAY. FOR EXAMPLE YOU MIGHT HAVE STATED THAT IT SEEMS BOTHERSOME THAT PEOPLE OF BOTH POLITICAL PERSUASIONS BASE THERE VOTE ON IRRESPONSIBLE MEDIA OUTLETS? YOU CHOOSE TO STATE UNBIASED OPINIONS BUT ONLY USE RIGHT WING POSITIONS TO DEFEND YOUR ARGUMENTS. THAT GETS PEOPLE FIRED UP AND THEN YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF "AN ARGUMENT NO ONE CAN WIN". THE BOTTOM LINE IS IF I AM A GAY SHOP KEEPER YOU BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERMENT SHOULD BE ABLE TO TELL ME HOW TO RUN MY PERSOANL LIFE BUT NOT MY SHOP, ON THE OTHER HAND I WOULD HAVE A GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF THE GOVERMENT TELLING ME HOW TO RUN MY SHOP (WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY AFFECT THE PUBLIC) THEN THE GOVERMENT TELLING ME I CANT MARRY MY LIFE PARTNER. WHICH REALLY DOESNT DO MUCH MORE THAT GRANT SOME LEGAL PROTECTIONS TO HIM. I STRAYED BUT I WILL LEAVE THAT. BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POINT, IF YOU WANT DIALOG THEN QUIT ATTACKING THE LEFT AND START PRESENTING POINTS IN AN UNBIASES WAY. IN SOME OF YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS YOU STATED THAT YOU DONT BELIEVE PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR VOTE BASED ON DEBATES, TRIVIAL BACK BITING, SOUND BITES ETC.. BUT YOU CONTINUE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW THE DEMOCRATS DO JUST THAT. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE SMART ENOUGH TO HAVE IT ALL FIGURED OUT? GIVE US A BREAK WE HAVE BRAINS TOO!!!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ugly Naked Guy said...

Dear Mr. Anonymous:

What we have here is a failure to communicate...

Did you read my latest comment on this post before you wrote your comment? Let me list some points again to see if I can be more clear.

*The reason I didn't mention "people of both political persuasions who vote based on irresponsible media outlets" is because I did not intend to talk about those people.

*The people I am talking about are those who consult ABSOLUTELY NO SOURCES before making their decision.

*I specifically sought to avoid any discussion of whose sources were better reasons for voting, because that is one of those unwinnable arguements I was talking about.

*I only used Fahrenheit 9/11 as an example because that is the only example I have personally heard where a non-engaged person voted based on popular hearsay instead of investigating themselves. Let me repeat, the type of person I am referring to does not listen to ANY media outlet responsible or otherwise.

*I specifically avoid mentioning any media sources myself that may be construed as biased by one side or the other. I believe I have only mentioned factcheck.org because they pointed out lies of Bush and Kerry.

*I never complained about Democrats who changed their vote based on "debates, trivial back-biting, soundbites, etc." I specifically said that people DON'T change their mind based on these things if they are attached with a particular party. I am usually careful to mean that my statements applies to people from both camps.

I will stop now, but if this doesn't clear things up I will probably try again.

Mr. Grim said...

ha ha. . .you see, ugly, mr.no name is the type of comment I did not wish to leave. After my story about my dad's life and death serving God's America only to end up in a free grave with no benefits, I think I was making it clear that even different minded people can talk. I don't think you suck and therefore couldn't tell you why you suck. I think Bush sucks, but I have since given up for now. Like with Jack, I'd like to find some common ground, which is why I said I'd probably not comment here since I know nothing of you.
you guys won.

Anonymous said...

YOU ASKED "HOW THE ELECTION MIGHT HAVE TURNED OUT HAD THIS FILM NOT BEEN AVAILABLE FOR FREE ON THE INTERNET THE DAY BEFORE THE ELECTION", THIS CLEARLY IMPLIES TO ME THAT YOU BELIEVE THE NUMBERS WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH HIGHER FOR BUSH IF THE FILM HAD NOT BEEN AVAILABLE. OH PLEASE THERE ARE IRRESPONSIBLE VOTERS ON BOTH SIDES. THE KERRY VOTES THAT CAME FROM THE MOVIE ARE IN NO GREATER NUMBERS THAN THE VOTES FOR BUSH BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A PICTURE OF HIM HANGING IN THAT VOTERS CHURCH FOYER. "WHO CARES WHAT BUSHES FOREIGH POLICY IS OR WHAT HIS DOMESTIC POLICY IS OR HOW MANY CIVIL LIBERTIES HE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY IN THE NAME OF FIGHTING TERROR, AS LONG AS HE DOES SOMETHING ABOUT THOSE PESKY FAGS"

Mr. Grim said...

wow. . .see there it is again.
Funny thing is, I actually agree with "anonymous" on just about everything he is saying here, on the other hand the volume of his/her capital letters is the kind of go-nowhere blame game that I mentioned I was trying to avoid.
Just so you know, UNG, whether trying to avoid it or not, politiblogs bring this very kind of comments as a matter of course. But not from me. I would tell you to try to be more balanced or something, but this is YOUR house and you are welcome to say whateverthehell you like.
!

Ugly Naked Guy said...

Well, anon is right about that because I am surprised that Bush even won, let alone actually winning the popular vote. Actually, I betray my true feelings; I am shocked, floored, that Bush won, so yes, I do wonder how it might have been by even more if it weren't for the fact that all I ever heard was how everyone hated him. Maybe it does have to do with that picture in the church foyer you talked about. Do you have a link so that I can read about that myself?

Anonymous said...

Thanks for you last post. I was going to get on here and apologize for screaming. It hit me this afternoon that you werent looking for a fight just some good conversation with like minded people. A need I can certainly appreciate. I will recommend your blog to all the dittos I know. I havent started a blog because I am one of those far left liberals that believe big brother is watching and I dont want a tax audit. sorry

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